yadda yadda 2

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Posts by yadda yadda 2

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  67

  How Long Have You Been Viewing Thiis Site? Does It Serve Its Purpose For You?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been here forever.... this site still gives us some of the most up to date info about jws .

  it keeps evolving.

  sometimes it is the place to be and i think that's especially true for newbies.

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  14

  My little sister

  by Nika Bee in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my little sister is 14 years younger than me.

  she was always special to me, i took care of her, when my mother was working, i carried her around, i comforted her.

  we are very similar in our interests for music and literature.. she is in secondary school, an unbaptised publisher.. since i study in the us, we only see each other about once a year.

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  How old is she now? What exactly is meant by "can't talk to me like before". Does that mean can't talk to you at all, or can't discuss JW related stuff? Not clear.
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  39

  After 44 years I finally found and spoke to my old prison buddy!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have had very few mentors in my life.

  i love each of them dearly.. one such was a man a bit older than me named tollie padget.. .

  tollie was the rarest of rare birds.

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  yadda yadda 2

  Dramatically highlights that being extremely intelligent has nothing to do with being intellectually honest. You had hoped otherwise in the case of your old friend, but alas.
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  12

  The American Constitution versus the 'Kingdom of God'.

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought this comparison between the american constitution and the 'kingdom of god' was very interesting from an article in this ex-mormon's excellent website http://packham.n4m.org/us-xian.htm.

  the article notes how america's founding father's were deists, not bible-believing christians.. but our nation is also a system of government, not just a society.

  the constitution is about government, not about society.

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  yadda yadda 2

  Then what a pity the nazi's didn't conquer Europe then Spacemadness. If they had, then today Europe would be very similar to the USA I'm sure.
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  212

  Candace Conti v Watchtower Society | June 3, 2013 | Respondent's Brief - prepared by Rick Simons | A136641

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  jw leaks has published the respondent's brief prepared by rick simons in the case: candace conti v. watchtower bible and tract society of new york & fremont congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

  (90 pages).

  http://jwleaks.org/candace-conti/.

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  yadda yadda 2

  Has a date for hearing the appeal been set? Why's it dragging on so long?
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  12

  The American Constitution versus the 'Kingdom of God'.

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought this comparison between the american constitution and the 'kingdom of god' was very interesting from an article in this ex-mormon's excellent website http://packham.n4m.org/us-xian.htm.

  the article notes how america's founding father's were deists, not bible-believing christians.. but our nation is also a system of government, not just a society.

  the constitution is about government, not about society.

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  yadda yadda 2

  And the JW's alternative of "God's Kingdom rule" isn't patriarchal or imperialistic?
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  6

  Jesus did not take the 'two witness' rule literally. He was concerned with the overall evidence.

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  at first glance, jesus appears to strictly support the two witness rule here:.

  john 8:16-18 but if i do judge, my decisions are right, because i am not alone.

  i stand with the father, who sent me.

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  yadda yadda 2

  At first glance, Jesus appears to strictly support the ‘two witness’ rule here:

  John 8:16-18 “But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

  But on further examination, Jesus did not insist on his doubters actually hearing the testimony of two literal witnesses. He showed in the following passages that what mattered was works as evidence of his claims.

  John 14: 9 - Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

  John 10: 34 - Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures[e] that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’[f] 35 And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’ 36 why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world. 37 Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work.38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”

  Jesus words above show he did not hold to a rigid stance on requiring two personal witnesses in order to establish a claim. If the testimony of himself as one witness didn’t satisfy his doubters then he appealed to the overall evidence. The Biblical principle laid down here by Jesus is that other forms of evidence, which in modern times would include forensic and any other evidence regarded as authoritative by the secular authorities, should be acceptable as a second ‘witness’ to establish guilt in the matter of the Watchtower’s policy on paedophile accusations.
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  12

  The American Constitution versus the 'Kingdom of God'.

  by yadda yadda 2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought this comparison between the american constitution and the 'kingdom of god' was very interesting from an article in this ex-mormon's excellent website http://packham.n4m.org/us-xian.htm.

  the article notes how america's founding father's were deists, not bible-believing christians.. but our nation is also a system of government, not just a society.

  the constitution is about government, not about society.

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  yadda yadda 2

  Fascinating ColdSteel, I had no idea of those Mormon beliefs.

  With the return of Christ, many will be destroyed at his coming. But these will be murderers, despots, and the lowest element of people. But those who are decent, honorable people of the earth, will be spared.

  That sounds a lot more reasonable and humane than the JW version of Armageddon.

  Interestingly, C T Russell never believed that most of humankind will be destroyed at Armaggedon. He believed the judgment of the ignorant masses occurs during the millennial reign, not before. He recognised it would be unjust for God to exterminate sinful mankind during Armaggedon if the resurrected dead get a second chance at life. Everyone must get a second chance he taught, even Adam.
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  82

  Who are the real WT puppet masters ?

  by cookiemaster in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a few days ago i posted my estimations about how much the wt actually makes a year.

  you guys were all really helpful and provided a lot of useful info.

  a good estimate would be 2-3 billion dollars a year.

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  ps - I am not comparing the ridiculous 'generation' interpretation to my example of potentially changing the scriptural understanding on the requirement for two witnesses. My example of the Bibilical principle of requiring sufficient evidence to establish guilt rather than literally requiring 'two witnesses' is really the proper Christian view.
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  82

  Who are the real WT puppet masters ?

  by cookiemaster in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  a few days ago i posted my estimations about how much the wt actually makes a year.

  you guys were all really helpful and provided a lot of useful info.

  a good estimate would be 2-3 billion dollars a year.

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  yadda yadda 2

  Fascinating thread. Absolutely agree with your last post Flipper as to responsibility and culpability, moderated by Apognophobo's valuable thoughts.

  There is a lot of supposition and conjecture though. Taking a more evidence-based approach, I would conclude the following:

  The recent new light that only the GB is the 'faithful and discreet slave' to the exclusion of all other 'anointed' shows unequivocally that the GB is first and foremost motivated by reinforcing and protecting their own collective power. I see this new light as final fulfillment of what Ray Franz wrote about in ISOCF in the chapter 'The Recurring Pattern,' where the historical trend is for religious leaderships to eventually morph into an authoritarian ecclesiastical body, which was the very thing that C T Russell tried to get away from when he started the whole thing way back when.

  Likewise, the latest 'overlapping generation', which is so scripturally and secularly unconvincing and unreasonable, clearly demonstrates that the Governing Body is more interested in perpetuating it's own interpretive and creedal power base than admitting error. The sheer arrogance of putting this nonsense over as 'new light' shows that, like never before, they are quite prepared to bend and twist any scripture to suit their own self-serving needs rather than admit error.

  Similarly, the latest January 2014 study articles heralding 100 years of Jesus invisible rule shows they remain utterly spellbound by Russell's chronology. One or two members may harbour secret doubts about it (as Ray Franz noted in ISOCF) but overall they stand by it hook line and sinker. These articles are almost taunting doubting JW's. The Society has put a stake in the ground, making it very clear that they have no intention of changing the teaching in the forseeable future.

  As for the blood policy, the gradual move away from the very hardline stance to now allow for blood fractions (where do blood fractions come from but donated blood?) probably shows they secretly would like to dump the doctrine. They have pushed this as far as they can without actually abandoning it or making it a conscience matter. These changes are suggestive of the possibility of eventually making it a conscience matter.

  The litigation and shocking bad publicity with the resultant rapid modifications of the paedophile policy shows clearly they are running scared on this and will urgently adapt to legal pressures. This also is a positive trend but a lot seems to be riding on the outcome of the Conti case. It is clear they will not budge unless absolutely cornered. But the fact they are so willing to abandon any feasible scriptural meaning of 'generation' proves that in a flash they can dream up 'new light' on anything, and you can be sure they will do that with the 'two witness' rule if cornered. For instance, overnight they could declare that behind the scriptural requirement for 'two witnesses' is the broader Biblical principle of the need to establish sufficient evidence to prove guilt, and overnight dump the literal requirement for 'two (human) witnesses' to child abuse for congregational discipline to occur.

  The recent hardline reconfirmations of the shunning policy demonstrate there is not going to be any change whatsoever with this in the foreseeable future.

  There is a clear pattern that they are reacting and adapting to legal and financial pressures, but very gradually. There is also a clear pattern of retrenchment and rationalisation with reducing literature production and cutting back operational costs. But there is also a clear pattern of great reluctance to move from the established body of doctrine and interpretation, doing so only incrementally at best. The analogy of the organisation being an organism that adapts to external pressures and is foremost devoted to it's own survival at all costs is completely appropriate.

  It is the concept of the 'organisation' itself being the earthly part of the kingdom of God that is the over-arching ideological concept driving the GB as puppet-masters. I believe the GB genuinely believes this, and that by perpetuating the organisation's growth and survival above all else they believe they are genuinely finding approval in God's eyes. This idealisation and idolisation of the organisation is very clear. They see themselves as literally those to whom the master entrusted talents and that their mission is to increase these (organisational) talents and hand them over to the master on his return. So everything must be subjugated to the organisation's survival and flourishing, even at the cost of individual's lives. The GB's modus operandi is first and foremost to serve and perpetuate the long-term interests of the organisation as the collective Christian congregation holding Christ's talents.